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	<title>Comments on: The Odder One Out</title>
	<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198</link>
	<description>Mathematics, applications of mathematics to life in general, and my life as a mathematician</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Merlin</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-35704</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 01:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-35704</guid>
		<description>@Doug Jenkins

But what is the standard? 
The standard is not being different at all cost, being different is the question not the standard.
The standard concerns on what basis a shape is different from another.
So the question becomes: on what basis does one shape stand out?
If I say: now it is unique because it lacks a unique feature other shapes do have, I cannot say that this uniqueness 
is ex- or interchangable with the unique features of the other shapes.  I cannot exchange the basis. 
One deals with a state of being, the other with having a well defined property.
And in that state of being, lacking the unique property, it stands out. To be or to have, that is the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Doug Jenkins</p>
<p>But what is the standard?<br />
The standard is not being different at all cost, being different is the question not the standard.<br />
The standard concerns on what basis a shape is different from another.<br />
So the question becomes: on what basis does one shape stand out?<br />
If I say: now it is unique because it lacks a unique feature other shapes do have, I cannot say that this uniqueness<br />
is ex- or interchangable with the unique features of the other shapes.  I cannot exchange the basis.<br />
One deals with a state of being, the other with having a well defined property.<br />
And in that state of being, lacking the unique property, it stands out. To be or to have, that is the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug jenkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34939</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34939</guid>
		<description>I'm the author of the Newton Excel Bach blog links above, and I've been giving this some more thought.

It seems to me that both the puzzle and the Monty Python scene (see link) are examples or Russell's Paradox, which asks if a set which is not a member of itself is a member of the set of all sets that are not members of themselves.  If it is, it isn't, and if it isn't then it is.

Similarly in the Monty Python scene the crowd on being told that they are "all different" look at one another and proudly respond in unison "yes we are all different", all except for one who has to report that he isn't.  As soon as he does so he becomes different, as the only one who isn't different, but then immediately becomes one of the crowd who are all different, and so on ...

With the shape puzzle (and "odd man out" puzzles in general) we are looking for some set of features that all the shapes share, except for one.  So, on the first pass, we see that common features, shared by all but one are: colour (red), shape (square), size (big), and border (present).  But now we have a problem, there are four odd ones, not one, so we need to look for another feature shared by all but one of the shapes, so we add a fith feature, to match the "standard" the shape must have exactly one "non-standard" feature.  Now (counting from left to right) shapes 2 to 5 can all proudly proclaim, yes we are all different, but poor old shape number 1, with its boring large square shape, plebian red colour, and common as muck thick black border, must nervously half raise its hand and say "I'm not!"  But being different is part of the standard, so it has one non-standard feature, so it doesn't, so it does, and so on ...

But wait, if it is not different, it has exactly one feature that is not part of the standard, so it does match the standard, but if it does match the standard it is not different to the other four shapes, so does not have one differing feature, so it does not match the standard, and so on ...


So the question is, if a set is defined as being those objects that meet a certain standard except in one respect</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the author of the Newton Excel Bach blog links above, and I&#8217;ve been giving this some more thought.</p>
<p>It seems to me that both the puzzle and the Monty Python scene (see link) are examples or Russell&#8217;s Paradox, which asks if a set which is not a member of itself is a member of the set of all sets that are not members of themselves.  If it is, it isn&#8217;t, and if it isn&#8217;t then it is.</p>
<p>Similarly in the Monty Python scene the crowd on being told that they are &#8220;all different&#8221; look at one another and proudly respond in unison &#8220;yes we are all different&#8221;, all except for one who has to report that he isn&#8217;t.  As soon as he does so he becomes different, as the only one who isn&#8217;t different, but then immediately becomes one of the crowd who are all different, and so on &#8230;</p>
<p>With the shape puzzle (and &#8220;odd man out&#8221; puzzles in general) we are looking for some set of features that all the shapes share, except for one.  So, on the first pass, we see that common features, shared by all but one are: colour (red), shape (square), size (big), and border (present).  But now we have a problem, there are four odd ones, not one, so we need to look for another feature shared by all but one of the shapes, so we add a fith feature, to match the &#8220;standard&#8221; the shape must have exactly one &#8220;non-standard&#8221; feature.  Now (counting from left to right) shapes 2 to 5 can all proudly proclaim, yes we are all different, but poor old shape number 1, with its boring large square shape, plebian red colour, and common as muck thick black border, must nervously half raise its hand and say &#8220;I&#8217;m not!&#8221;  But being different is part of the standard, so it has one non-standard feature, so it doesn&#8217;t, so it does, and so on &#8230;</p>
<p>But wait, if it is not different, it has exactly one feature that is not part of the standard, so it does match the standard, but if it does match the standard it is not different to the other four shapes, so does not have one differing feature, so it does not match the standard, and so on &#8230;</p>
<p>So the question is, if a set is defined as being those objects that meet a certain standard except in one respect</p>
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		<title>By: More about not being different &#171; Newton Excel Bach, not (just) an Excel Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34677</link>
		<dc:creator>More about not being different &#171; Newton Excel Bach, not (just) an Excel Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34677</guid>
		<description>[...] The Odder One Out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The Odder One Out [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: More about not being different &#171; Newton Excel Bach, not (just) an Excel Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34676</link>
		<dc:creator>More about not being different &#171; Newton Excel Bach, not (just) an Excel Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-34676</guid>
		<description>[...] The Odder One Out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The Odder One Out [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: De vreemde eend &#124; Annelyse</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-27032</link>
		<dc:creator>De vreemde eend &#124; Annelyse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-27032</guid>
		<description>[...] reeks had ik hier [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] reeks had ik hier [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Annelyse</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-26559</link>
		<dc:creator>Annelyse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-26559</guid>
		<description>I'm going to use this one on my blog. Great!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to use this one on my blog. Great!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Erik van Bergen</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24965</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik van Bergen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24965</guid>
		<description>From a evolutionary point of view the left figure is the ancestral one. All other figures can derive from it in just one step... 

In the second puzzle you see that you will always need two steps the get from one figure to the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a evolutionary point of view the left figure is the ancestral one. All other figures can derive from it in just one step&#8230; </p>
<p>In the second puzzle you see that you will always need two steps the get from one figure to the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco Tocornal</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24815</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco Tocornal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24815</guid>
		<description>What about saying: "the question is wrong: there's no odder one", or "'odd' is not well defined".
In the second set of figures, all have two diferences with the other ones so I think that there's no odder one in that one. IN the first set, it's not so easy.
What about:
In a set of figures, we can create a partition of it such as in all its components' elements are exactly equal, we have some sub-sets then such that in every one there's different figure, but every element of a sub-set is different to any element of any other sub-set, therefore we say A is relatively-odd to B if A and B belong to different sub-sets.
In our case, all are relatively odd to the other ones.
We can also use a Venn diagram where every circle has a lable as "square", "presence of frame"... Then the first figure of the first set whould be it's intersection, therefore it's the less odd, but the other ones are equally odd, so the answer of the questions whould be "all except from the first one". In the second set, there's no intersection and then there are no odd one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about saying: &#8220;the question is wrong: there&#8217;s no odder one&#8221;, or &#8220;&#8216;odd&#8217; is not well defined&#8221;.<br />
In the second set of figures, all have two diferences with the other ones so I think that there&#8217;s no odder one in that one. IN the first set, it&#8217;s not so easy.<br />
What about:<br />
In a set of figures, we can create a partition of it such as in all its components&#8217; elements are exactly equal, we have some sub-sets then such that in every one there&#8217;s different figure, but every element of a sub-set is different to any element of any other sub-set, therefore we say A is relatively-odd to B if A and B belong to different sub-sets.<br />
In our case, all are relatively odd to the other ones.<br />
We can also use a Venn diagram where every circle has a lable as &#8220;square&#8221;, &#8220;presence of frame&#8221;&#8230; Then the first figure of the first set whould be it&#8217;s intersection, therefore it&#8217;s the less odd, but the other ones are equally odd, so the answer of the questions whould be &#8220;all except from the first one&#8221;. In the second set, there&#8217;s no intersection and then there are no odd one.</p>
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		<title>By: Welke hoort niet in het rijtje? &#171; Drabkikker</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24637</link>
		<dc:creator>Welke hoort niet in het rijtje? &#171; Drabkikker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 13:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24637</guid>
		<description>[...] antwoord is erg verrassend! Lees het hele verhaal hier, maar probeer het eerst [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] antwoord is erg verrassend! Lees het hele verhaal hier, maar probeer het eerst [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Merlijn van Veen</title>
		<link>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24620</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlijn van Veen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 05:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.tanyakhovanova.com/?p=198#comment-24620</guid>
		<description>You can choose the first form, because it only differs one feature from the others, while the others differ two features from each other.

Or you can say that it is the first because this form has no unique feature on its own.
This is what I saw.

But if you talk about the one that is 'most unlike' the others, then it is definitely the green one - it jumps at you the moment you see the question. 
But this way of looking at it is not analytical.

This question has an obvious analytical pattern here however: it is deliberately created in order to make the one that is not odd stand out with a gameplay of size, colour and shape.
That is the essential meaning of this question, and only one answer addresses that.

Kinship in forms, as if they evolved from each other, is another perception.
Here also the first form takes central stage: there is a dwarf 'subspecies', a green and a round variety, and the variety without a shell / exoskeleton.
In that case it is not usual to say that the central, holotype, form is the odd one out.
It is the one that STANDS out from the others because its form is typical for 'the species'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can choose the first form, because it only differs one feature from the others, while the others differ two features from each other.</p>
<p>Or you can say that it is the first because this form has no unique feature on its own.<br />
This is what I saw.</p>
<p>But if you talk about the one that is &#8216;most unlike&#8217; the others, then it is definitely the green one - it jumps at you the moment you see the question.<br />
But this way of looking at it is not analytical.</p>
<p>This question has an obvious analytical pattern here however: it is deliberately created in order to make the one that is not odd stand out with a gameplay of size, colour and shape.<br />
That is the essential meaning of this question, and only one answer addresses that.</p>
<p>Kinship in forms, as if they evolved from each other, is another perception.<br />
Here also the first form takes central stage: there is a dwarf &#8217;subspecies&#8217;, a green and a round variety, and the variety without a shell / exoskeleton.<br />
In that case it is not usual to say that the central, holotype, form is the odd one out.<br />
It is the one that STANDS out from the others because its form is typical for &#8216;the species&#8217;.</p>
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